"If Christian fundamentalists were doing this – as they used to, and would like to again..."
What self-serving nonsense. Which Christian group used to make regular practice of threatening people with knives, of kicking apostates to the ground? If your answer starts with 'Well, during the Spanish Inquisition...' then why not try and be a little more contemporary, say with an example from the last 400 years.
Of course, those Christian fundamentalists are just lining up seething, waiting for the opportunity to hack the heads off non-believers. Just like the Buddhists, Hindus, Jews and Wiccans. If anyone can dig it out of a library, several years ago, Saturday Night magazine ran a good article on Muslim apostates in Canada.
Posted at 2007-10-26 08:51:18 [PermaLink]"...she has learned that the police just aren’t interested. “They have never been very helpful,” she says. “They act as if it’s your fault for ‘provoking’ these people, when in fact the Islamist movement uses threats and intimidation as a tool to silence their critics.”
You know, replace the word "police" with the word "liberals" and this statement would be just as true.
"If Christian fundamentalists were doing this – as they used to, and would like to again – none of us would hesitate in erupting in rage."
Bzuhh? Christian fundamentalists killed people who left the faith? What history book is that from? If there's one thing I can't stand it's this weaselly habit of (falsely) accusing Christians of atrocities so it looks like we're not singling out the poor little Islamofascists.
Please do not use the apologists tool of moral relativism.One thing Christendom has in its ledger is reform/enlightenment.
Till islam wakes up and reforms (if it ever does..) it will continue on its murderous seventh century ways till enough people come to the realization that they need to be stomped, and stomped hard..
Here's another gem from the original Hari article: "If moderate Muslims find a way to relativize away the most abhorrent parts of their holy text, as many Christians have been forced to in a secular environment, then we should cautiously welcome them, while still encouraging them to make the full journey into atheism."
See, you have to make the full journey into what Hari believes, because what he believes is right and what religious people, whether they're suburban Protestants or throat-slashing jihadists, believe is wrong and wrong in exactly the same way. And if it's not wrong in exactly the same way, Hari will make up some mythical place where suburban Protestants do slash throats and murder their disobedient daughters, and where moderate Muslims are only moderate because they're lying to themselves. Because until everyone kneels down and accepts the absolute truth of atheism, nothing will be right. Get it?
Mr Hari's onto something. After all, atheists NEVER kill dissidents!
[External Link]
"If Christian fundamentalists were doing this – as they used to, and would like to again – none of us would hesitate in erupting in rage."
Yeah - all the conservative Catholics and evangelicals I know are sitting around their empty garage bays next to the Windstars sharpening their head-loppers, when they aren't locking their daughters in their rooms or killing them when they marry Episcopalians. Isn't Hari aware how neatly this sort of hyperbole pauperizes his argument? Or is it a matter of writing for the echo chamber?
Too bad this guys entire article is undermined by the cheap shot at Christians.
The author is gravely mistaken in the belief that the answer to achieving tolerance and freedom of conscience is to abolish faith. There has never yet been, and never will be a society that achieved those goals where biblical Christian faith was not a major influence.
"Christian fundamentalists killed people who left the faith? What history book is that from?"
That question is so ignorant it beggars belief. Is this what American education has come to?
If you have some newly discovered historical facts, Mr R, do share with the rest of us.
Posted at 2007-10-27 09:01:55 [PermaLink]Hey David R.: Note, "Ellie in T.O." You know, Toronto Ontario? As in, Ontario *Canada*? Um, wonders of the public ejukashun system.
HEY... maybe David has a point!!
"fun·da·men·tal·ism
Pronunciation: \-tə-ˌli-zəm\
Function: noun
Date: 1922
1a often capitalized : a movement in 20th century Protestantism emphasizing the literally interpreted Bible as fundamental to Christian life and teaching"
Fundamentalist Christians never killed those who left the faith, or threatened their lives; they don't do it now; and as for "would like to again" -- is Mr Hari relying on ESP or mind-reading to make that statement? In any case, you can't do "again" what you've never done before. Duh.
I suppose you could count the Inquisition as "fundamentalists" abusing people for "leaving" the faith. That was, let's see, 400 years ago?
No, I'm afraid the most blood-curdling example of Christian fundamentalism you'll find in modern America is a family home-schooling its kids or dropping cable television. But as for murdering apostates? Naw. Hell with 'em.
When the ship is full of crazies, it's the call of a responsible adult to jump off- and I'm glad to see some folks are doing just that.
Now, they just need to live some place where they can put down anyone who comes after them with colorful thoughts of beheading them.
Hey Penny, how's that sharia law working out in Newfoundland?
Posted at 2007-10-30 03:56:17 [PermaLink]Now where did I leave my beheading knife?...Oh yeah, I don't have one. What kind of a fundamentalist Christian am I? Oh my! Did I miss all those verses about beheading while I was learning to love my fellows? Please enlighten me. Zactly where was I instructed to do that? Or was the writer referring to the persecution of protestants (burning at the stake and such) at the hands of the roman catholics during the reformation? I thought a "European" education was supposed to be rigorous.
Posted at 2007-10-30 05:08:01 [PermaLink]"Isn't Hari aware how neatly this sort of hyperbole pauperizes his argument?"
Its not hyperbole in the usual sense. This is more likely the result of the lies fed to him in grade school. The propaganda starts at a very early age.
IOW - he probably really believes it. If someone is a recent escapee from Islam it could take many years "outside the bubble" to undo a lifetime of what amounts to cultish propaganda programming.
Call in and check out our interview tonight at 8PM EST with Dr. Paul L. Williams, author of The Day of Islam at thirdrailradio.com
Posted at 2007-11-28 09:06:24 [PermaLink]Why not read about those who made the journey the other way round: from atheism and total unbelief to faith? Of course all the rubbish we hear about islam ls not islam .Who can really claim to understand islam or Quran? Quran has different readings and the problem is that we continue to read the apparent one.What if the words in Quran have other symbolic meanings? I have tried to explain some in this book:"Lumière de Dieu".You can read it in its blog through MSN(mailbox)
wwwlumieredieu@blogspot.com