15°C ice-cold? Gee Mark, must be, um, global warming?
Posted at 2007-10-28 11:50:53 [PermaLink]Never mind, Mark. If you go to the LCBO today you can take part in the Government of Ontario's special whiskey promotion "Whisky Style" (that's how they spell it; this is Dalton-The-Eduction-Premier's Ontario, after all).
Probably a follow-up on the "European Style" liquor, "Buy (Booze) Get Points!" and "Just Add Liquor" promotions over the past few months.
And just in case we haven't, there's always the friendly banner asking us if we've "Bought Any Ontario Wine Lately?"
And, finally, what we're all waiting for with bated breath . . . Christmas booze full-colour catalogues (today's children will no doubt look back fondly at these little gems just as oldsters today recall Eaton's Christmas catalogues of yesteryear). They will start to be inserted into our daily newspapers very soon. Last year there were at least five of them, once I started counting.
Thank goodness the Government of Ontario doesn't have a tobacco monopoly, the way the LCBO tries to ramp up alcohol consumption! =P
I'm all for private enterprise selling booze provided all the shops don't end up in the hands of immigrants.
Posted at 2007-10-28 13:30:47 [PermaLink]Real Conservative... !??
For starters, ain't nothing "Conservative" in bigotry. On the other hand, IF RC were so "Real" as a Conservative, he/she/it'd want to *own* a few shops rather than belly-ache about "immigrant" ownership.
Look, I don't mean this as a rude slap-down RC... but we endure much repeated bigotry and whining from our Leftist pals. Yeah, when you're surrounded by trolls it's difficult not to pick up the accent.
And the Beer Store is now a foreign owned monopoly distributor that promotes foreign owned brands like molson and labbatt at the expense of Canadian micro and mini brewery options. I have nothing against foreign ownership, but monopoly distribution? No way.
Posted at 2007-10-28 17:59:02 [PermaLink]Yeah, I've been listening to those radio commercials the LCBO is running - the ones with the sultry voiced jazz singer - and I keep asking this question:
"Why is the government, through its monopoly business, pursuing as social policy the increase of alcohol consumption in this province?
The "control" in Liquor Control Board apparently now means that they need the control in order to make sure that Ontarians don't drink too little!
In fairness to the Beer Store, that operation is just about the most successful recycling program ever implemented. Their recovery rate is consistently in the high 90% range and the overall process efficiency is great.
The Beer Store sends pallets of empties to the brewers, they are pulled off of trucks and right onto the line, unboxed, washed, inspected, filled, capped, labelled, reboxed and sent back out. It's seamless, saves tonnes of money, saves energy and resources, and has a participation rate that blue boxes dream of.
Sure I'd like my neighbourhood convenience store to stock cold beers, but would they take back the empties and give me money for them? Even the LCBO couldn't be bothered to provide that level of life cycle service and they've farmed that out to the Beer Store now as well.
That being said, I buy most of my booze through independant retailers. You can get beer, wine and spirits right at their sources, usually for less money.
If am not mistaken from my time living in ONT, the LCBO store is not allowed to chill beer.
Posted at 2007-10-29 06:15:23 [PermaLink]"Sure I'd like my neighbourhood convenience store to stock cold beers, but would they take back the empties and give me money for them?"
Dara - it appears you haven't bought beer in Quebec. A deposit is charged as in Ontario and the grocery stores I've been to accept empties. I travel to Montreal often and patronize Costco. Grolsch ( [External Link]), including taxes and assuming the empty cans are returned for the 20 cent deposit, costs about $1.55 per 500 ml. can (bought in a case of 24). The comparable can in Ontario costs $2.25 the last time I checked. The same holds for German Bitburger ( [External Link]).
Returning of cans is automated - the empty cans are fed into a machine that reads the bar code (rejecting out of province cans), crushes the cans and gives you a receipt when finished.
BTW - for good beer, 15 degrees Celsius is about the right temperature. The crap that Molsons and Labatts make is best served ice cold (almost frozen) since it minimizes the awful taste.
some of the beer in larger liquor stores is on shelves that are cooled.
The beer store need to be shut down. recycling efficiency or not its a joke. they have an in house magazine and recently did a costly and unnecessary face lift to all their stores. they have excess cash that is better in the hands of a small store owner than the capricious losers who run our major brewers
"Never mind, Mark. If you go to the LCBO today you can take part in the Government of Ontario's special whiskey promotion "Whisky Style" (that's how they spell it; this is Dalton-The-Eduction-Premier's Ontario, after all). "
Isn't the Scottish "whisky" normally the preferred Canadian spelling? (It's actually the spelling recommended by US ATF, although the Irish "whiskey" is still the more commonly used here.)
John,
So you're saying Ontario needs a new Crown corporation to handle beverage container recycling like they have in Quebec?
While it is important to recycle beer cans for their aluminum, the real key to the efficiency of the beer system here is the refillable brown bottles, and in Quebec participation in that is optional for retailers.
I'm not sure it's actually important to recycle beer cans for their aluminum.
Aluminum is plentiful, and recycling is often not cost-efficient.
(Is beer as expensive in Newfoundland as in BC, where it's about $20 for a 12 pack of mediocre beer like Molson?
I don't think a lot of Americans are disappointed that their beer isn't ice cold; they're disappointed that it costs nearly three times as much.)
Dara: I'm not sure what you are talking about. The following website details the recycling rate across Canada and shows the recycling/reuse rate for beer bottles (reusable) is roughly the same for Ontario and Quebec. From what I've seen and done, containers are returned to retailers for refund. I was only using the above example to show how it's automated in Quebec and how much cheaper beer is in that province. Furthermore, reusable bottle are only relevant for domestic beer.
For the record, Quebec also has a similar system for pop cans and bottles (including plastic). Again, it is handled through the retailers although my experience is just with supermarket chains.
[External Link]
Gord:
The LCBO for some time has been pushing beer sales with a good portion of their product chilled. This happens mostly in their newer (i.e. larger) stores and they sell mostly imported and domestic craft brewers (microbrewery) product.
Sigivald:
Aluminum is one of the few common consumer metals that it is economic to recycle. While aluminum is one of the more common elements, it is extremely energy intesive to refine (think Arvida and Kitimat and electricity). The reason we have aluminum soft drink cans in Ontario is legislation. The value of aluminum collected subsidizes the recycling of steel, etc.
[External Link]
[External Link]
"The amount of energy saved by recycling aluminum cans in the United States per year is equivalent to approximately 15 million barrels of oil, which at today’s prices equates to $1.1 billion."
[External Link]
The best consumer beer policy can be found in Montréal's east end.
It's sold, well refigerated, in every corner store and most places have a delivery guy and bike equipped with a *beer-basket* who brings it right to your door.
When you order the second case by phone...a somewhat difficult exercise with the new ten digit dialing....you give him the empties from the first case, you hic-cup, and you then take possession of the fresh stock.
As far as beer delivery systemes go, Montréal's is sans souci.
You can be living on welfare, yet feel like you're living at the Waldorf.
John,
What I'm talking about with respect to Quebec is that all recycling there is run by the Crown Corporation Recyc-Quebec. It handles both the beer and soft drink recycling and does a great job apparently.
So to compare Ontario to Quebec you have to take into account that Quebec has a government bureaucracy that keeps its refillable beer program on par with Ontarios. In order to move to a private retailer system, how do you propose we coordinate the return system? Individual retailers will not run in droves to start managing pallets of empties so what would happen without the Beer Store infrastructure in place.
Dara: Alberta manages.
"ALBERTA BEVERAGE CONTAINER RECYCLING CORPORATION (ABCRC) is a provincially incorporated not-for-profit product stewardship corporation. Our mandate is to be the agent for the beverage manufacturers to operate a common collection system for registered containers, to be responsible for recycling beverage containers, to comply with regulation and BCMB by-laws, and to promote the economic and efficient collection of beverage containers. Our Board of Directors consists of representatives of the beverage industry including the soft-drink, water and juice sectors."
[External Link]
OK John, so where do you propose we put the recycling depot for downtown Toronto? I shudder to think of the size that it would have to be to cover any rent at all. It'll need a big parking lot too. Close to the subway as well... yikes that'll drive the price up even more and think of the smell on whatever TTC route services it.
It's so hard to keep any business open in southern Ontario with rent prices. I can't imagine making ends meet on the margins of dime and quarter containers that take up a lot of space. Then you've got to truck them out.
Or you can sell beer out of the location, and have the trucks running loaded to and from the breweries. It's hard to imagine a replacement system, no matter who implements it, having a similar level of success for some time. As I said before, the efficiency of what happens to beer bottles in Ontario is great.
I was reading the financial section of yesterday's National Post and they had a write-up about a young lady who was responsible for bringing China's # 2 beer to Canada (sorry can't remember the name of the beer). In the last few years she has managed to get this beer sold in every province in Canada, except Ontario. The reason why its not sold in Ontario; the LCBO decided that they already sell one Chinese beer and that's enough. Go figure!
Posted at 2007-10-30 04:49:36 [PermaLink]The problem with beer (and wine/liquor) distribution in Ontario isn't efficiency, it's consumer choice and pricing. Just go into any Beer Store and ask an intelligent question about which beer would nicely match a lamb stew for example - then watch the guy's head explode. Eh, what's wrong with Coor's Light buddy would be the likely response.
Posted at 2007-10-30 07:27:47 [PermaLink]John: If aluminum is economical to recycle it must be just barely so, or significantly variable over time, because I remember fairly recently that "recycled" cans were being landfilled around here because it wasn't worth the effort to recycle them for aluminum.
Of course, if it's economical to recycle aluminum cans, there should be enough fiscal incentive to the customer in there that no government program is needed...
(And re. your latest post, choice and pricing are usually the first to go in a monopoly, but even without one it's a rare beer store that's going to have people who do pairing advice.
Insufficient demand and insufficient value-add to be worth training your staff on that.)
John B,
You're right that the problem isn't efficiency in Ontario. It's not a problem because the Beer Store is there. If it weren't then you'd have efficiency problems unless you replaced it.
I hardly think that you could walk into a cornerstore and ask for a beer recommendation either. At least it's better than the LCBO where the employees would recommend the wrong wine because they feel they're qualified.
Sigivald,
"significantly variable over time" is the right choice.
Creating aluminum is electricity intensive and electricity prices are always rising. Making a kilogram of aluminum requires about 12 to 15 kilowatt-hours of electricity. In contrast, melting a kilo of aluminum only requires about 1% of that energy (640C*875J/kg.C= 560000J=0.15kw-h) and can be performed using cheaper thermal energy.
Also, aluminum prices have gone up as China uses more and more of it. Increased fuel prices also raise the value of aluminum cans recycled locally. There are a lot of factors that figure in on the viability of aluminum recycling, but most of them are trending towards permanent viability until some major technological revolution that completely changes the processes involved.
Yup, the Beer Store is so efficient that someone has to put their empty wine/liquor bottles into the car and drive them to The Beer Store, which of course doesn't sell wine/liquor. Good story - except for the extra driving or those folks living in downtown Toronto who decide against/can't afford to own a car. Let's see, a half dozen wine/rum bottles in a bag ($1.20) and two TTC tokens (soon to be $2.25). Good business model, spend $4.50 to get less than half that in return. The LKGB of course, gets off scott-free.
Posted at 2007-10-31 07:39:38 [PermaLink]