Re: "The person on the other side is not evil -- they just have a different perspective."
What bullshit. There isn't a day that goes by (quite literally) where a jihadi somewhere in the world isn't butchering an infidel or perceived apostate. Schoolgirls in Indonesia, a family of eight in southern Thailand (because the father withdrew from the terrorists), London, Madrid, Israel, Pakistan, Kasmir, Bangladesh, Beslan - well you get the picture.
Damian:
"I have spent the last four years 'trying to figure out the other side'- and the more I learn about them, there more I think there is no word more appropriate than 'evil'."
Nicely put!
This comforting fantasy, that if we could just understand each other better we'd all get along, always reminds me of the story George Will tells of Judith Martin, aka Miss Manners, serving as president of a school board and disagreeing with another member on every issue.
The arguments began to turn heated, and the gentleman suggested that they take the board into recess so they could get to know each other better. To which Miss Manners responded:
"You don't understand. The only reason I haven't murdered you yet is that I don't know you all that well and I want to give you the benefit of the doubt. Do you really want to erase that doubt?"
Did you guys ever stop think think that more than likely Matthews was talking about the "left" and the "right" when he said "the other side"--not Al Qaeda?
I thought it was pretty obvious myself.
Perhaps one of yous could pass this along to the people at LGF's. I have no intention of becoming a member there but I think you are completely misrepresenting what Matthews was saying.
This is further proof that the LLL and it's talking heads in the MSM,Four years after 9/11 still think that the GWOT is being waged against Islamic facism ONLY because we hate them.
I know I hate them.
I hate what they stand for.
I hate what they hope to achieve.
I hate how they are going about trying to achieve it.
I hate them because I Love America.
Yes Mr. Matthews,I hate Islamists.
You are correct that some Americans hate them rather than trying to "understand thier perspective".
The only reason we may seek to better understand them,Is so that our Armed Forces can seek them out,wherever they are,and KILL them!
In the days following 9/11 Americans were filled with a white-hot hate for those whose ideaology would allow them to believe that flying airliners with hundreds of innocents aboard into buildings with THOUSANDS of innocents inside of them is something that thier God would approve of.
Now,four years later,our hate has cooled into a cold determination to see our enemy vanquished.
Not just until we've hurt them and lessened thier ability to hit us here at home,but until every single one of them is dead or finally comes to realize that to struggle against the United States and all that is good and right with her,is futile.
Those in this country who believe that the way to fight a man who holds a weapon and has a willingness to use it against you, is to reason with him using words and understanding is headed for an early grave.
The politcal strategy being used by the left in America is just that, politics.
It's not what is really important.
Fighting and winning the war, is.
So Mr Matthews,just as we hate Islamic terrorists, We love America and we want to see her win the GWOT wherever in the world our elected officials determine that it be fought.
Wether it be in Afghanistan or Iraq or Syria or Iran or Indonesia.
You see Mr Matthews,That's what-"We the People"- elected those officials to do.
Accept it already.
You always have '08 to look forward to.
Well considering how the Left has behaved since 9-11, it isn't far off the mark to call them evil also...ie Chomsky, Churchill, Sontag, Penn, Genovese, and so so many more.....yeah, these people are evil...
So methinks it doesn't matter who Chrissy was talking about....
Did you just fucking compare the "left" in America to fucking Al Qaeda?
Do you not realize that you are doing exactly what Chris Matthews was complaining about?!
For heaven sakes people get a grip. The other side isn't "evil", though I would venture to say that the people here and at LGFs are fucking insane.
Giving Matthews the benefit of the doubt that he is not a raving loon, I think The Disenfranchised Voter is right. Matthews is talking about the level of political discourse, not appeasing al Qaeda.
Comments like, "I would venture to say that the people here and at LGFs are fucking insane," demonstrate Matthew's point nicely.
I think Matthews was commenting that the war would've been better executed if it weren't just a blind war against "terrists" and "evilists".
It doesn't matter that I'm against a lot of what was done in the name of war against "evilism." If I were a war-against-evilismist, I think it would've been stragetically smarter to base it on a cold, calculated rage, than a blind, stupid hate.
Alright, let's say Matthews was talking about the left when he said "The person on the other side is not evil -- they just have a different perspective."
Agreed they might not be evil but rather just plain ignorant. How else does one explain their obtuseness when presented almost daily with evidence of an ongoing jihad that has been declared (quite openly) against the west by the Islamists.
"Comments like, "I would venture to say that the people here and at LGFs are fucking insane," demonstrate Matthew's point nicely."
No, I hate to break it to you but that comment by me was spot on. When you compare the left or the right to fucking Al Qaeda you are insane--period.
"Alright, let's say Matthews was talking about the left when he said "The person on the other side is not evil -- they just have a different perspective.""
He wasn't talking about just the left. He was talking about the left and the right. Whichever "side" you are on, the "other side" isn't evil.
"Agreed they might not be evil but rather just plain ignorant."
And don't you think the other side could say the same of you?
I think what Matthews point was that we focus on our differences so much that we just shut opposing viewpoints out and dismiss them as having an "evil" agenda. We really do need to come together if we are going to win this war, are we not?
The left refuses to accept that we as a nation are engaged in a war against a determined enemy.
They simply refuse to see it.
The left doesn't accept the fact that the rhetoric that they spew is harmful not only to the troops in the field but to the citizenry at home.
The left in America has lost it's grip of reality.
Perhaps when the other shoe drops here at home,they'll see that they have stake in this battle, unless they're too busy blaming Bush for the attack rather than the murdering assholes who were behind it.
The Left let's political belief get in the way of national security.
Stop obstructing and start helping.
"Bring the troops home now" is NOT helping.
"We really do need to come together if we are going to win this war, are we not?"
I'm afraid that remarks like this show just how very much you are missing the point. Some of the people Albertanator named -- I don't know who all of them are -- believe that not only are we *not* going to win this war, they believe that there is no war, that it's all cooked up by the Bu$Hitler cabal; but if there were a war, we'd deserve to lose it.
They may not be *on* the other side, but they sure seem to be rooting for them.
(This is regardless of what Chris Matthews actually meant.)
Disenfranchised.........yeah I think comparing Islamic terrorists to Profs at Columbia who are wishing for 10 000 mogidishus is more then appropiate........the left in America and across the Free West has become unhinged and dangerously so....and their are countless examples of this type of rhetoric coming from the Liberals since 9-11.....
So whether Chrissie was referring to the depraved left or depraved islamic terrorists, it really doesn't matter!!
Just to further clarify, I am not referring to responsible democrats and moderate leftists like Joe Lieberman, Gephardt, Chris Hitchens and others that do see the bigger picture....of course their are some fine people on the left wing spectrum that do see the danger we are in from Islamic terrorism.....kudos to those people....I was referring to the increasingly nutty left which sadly has terrific power in our media and higher academia...
Posted at 2005-11-21 15:27:00 [PermaLink]OK, look: If Matthews was really talking about the left-right divide in America, then I absolutely agree with him.
But if he was talking about the enemies of America and its allies in this fight, then he deserves all the scorn Damian (and those of us who agree with him) can heap on him.
Now, I realize some of you think it's obvious Matthews was talking about the rift within America. But when I read:
"most Americans have still not learned to know their enemies instead of just hating them,"
you'll have to forgive me for thinking he's not referring to divisions within America after all. And for seconding Damian's point that there need be no contradiction between the two. (I want us to do our best to understand Islamist terrorists, so we can more effectively kick their teeth down their throats.)
I for one don't consider Americans whose political views are opposite to mine to be the enemy. (Say, The Disenfranchised Voter: Can you say the same thing? I'm genuinely curious, not trying to pick a fight.) They are my opponents. People who want me dead are my enemies.
The Disenfranchised Voter:
Re: "And don't you think the other side could say the same of you?"
Only if we weren't presented daily with evidence that jihad has been declared on us by the followers of Islamic fascism. My good man, open your eyes and look around. Almost every day there is an act of jihad against infidels around the world - infidels don't stop at Israelis or the evil U.S. but include Hindus, Buddhists, Christians, Jews, Bahais and atheists.
Albertanator,
It is *rather* insane to compare the modern Left with Al Qaeda.
One group is a depraved, fascist hun attempting to destroy our freedoms and institutions and impose its religious view on the rest. (The other are merely Islamic jihadis.) (Nudge, wink.)
Having compared them, it might be fun to contrast them...
And you wonder why the libertarians, like myself, have left the Republican party.
You guys have gone bat-shit insane. The comments here merely prove this.
I don't think you guys are evil, I just think you are extremely fucking brainwashed/delusional. You deride the left for comparing Bush to Hitler, yet you turn around and compare the left to an Islamic terrorist organization and think you are acting rational?
As I said earlier, get a grip.
Dearest Disenfranchised;
1) Most of us here are rather libertarian, and one in particular is a former Republican who has left the party for reasons much as you've described;
2) No-one here appreciates your cursing or ad hominem troll posts. Sell your ideas. Drop the swearing and ad hominem nonsense... We get plenty of that sort of hostile behaviour from our pet troll. (You know who you are, too... (grins))
3) The /sarc tags are a bit difficult to read IF you have no sense of humour. (humor South o' 49.)
4) No one here has 'gone' insane... We're a priori insane.
5) I stand by my comment: The LEFT in the West is a depraved, fascist hun attempting to destroy our freedoms and institutions and impose its religious view on the rest.
Abortion = depraved elimination of one individual's rights (and life)
monopolistic governmental agencies = fascism
socialism = destroyed freedoms
redefined marriage = destroyed institutions
official public atheism = imposition of one religious view
If this sounds disturbingly like one militaristic religious rabble, tough.
Damn you P.K., you beat me to it again!!!
"Yadayadayada bat-shit insane. "
"Yadayadayada extremely fucking brainwashed/delusional"
The least he could do is use **; I mean, this is a family program.
;)
P.K.
"4) No one here has 'gone' insane... We're a priori insane."
Hit the nail on the head again did you.