Being a Torontonian, where close to half the population is foreign born, I've been asking this for years. But of course, I'm a racist...
Does anyone really think Toronto will still have Veteran's Day celebrations and an opera house and a Hockey Hall of Fame, etc in 20 years time, those things being very WASPy institutions?
Do you think your nurse will speak English fluently and if not, how will this affect your care? Will the guy behind the store counter understand what you're asking for? Will the mechanic understand when you explain what's wrong with your car? How will the Asian disdain for manual labour effect the number of tradesmen or even bus drivers? How much will the Jamaican disdain for higher education cost me in welfare checks and prison guards?
Oh but I forgot: "just think of all the great restaurants!" Yeah, but what if I can't go out without a veil?
Last Saturday I made a rare, reluctant trip downtown and had to put up with two pants-falling-down gangsta rappers blocking the subway entrance while they yelled at each other _in sign language_. After 20 years, I've lost any ability I ever had to view such sights as amusing examples of our rich cultural diversity. I just want to move to Salt Lake City.
Just think of the Far East and Indian sub-continent, sprinkle in a touch of the Middle-East, and top it off with a health dab of Africa.
Also, when these groups (with their high birth rates) begin placing individuals in elected office who share similar views (see sharia laws), we will then be the "Kafir".
Hair on the back of your neck standing up yet?
"And what kind of country will it be with more and more of the population living in just six large conurbations?"
Go ask Australia. They just barely have six.
So what are you really trying to say? Put it out into the open. Left wing liberalism and right wing red necks have created a situation where the immigrants have been able to sneak up the middle and pit them against each other, so that while they do battle the very character of the country is changing to the point where slowly slowly the immigrants will have a socially conservative country that is under their non-traditional ethnic Canadian thrall. For more on this and other thoughts check out singhontheworld.blogspot.com, [External Link]
Posted at 2007-03-14 07:38:23 [PermaLink]"How will the Asian disdain for manual labour effect the number of tradesmen or even bus drivers?"
That's why tradesmen often now make more than "white collar" workers. Supply and demand - it works every time. As for bus drivers, one can outsource IT jobs to Bangalore, but not bus drivers.
"Left wing liberalism and right wing red necks have created a situation where the immigrants have been able to sneak up the middle..."
Are you kidding?PET and the rest of the liberal sheeple have been running defense for these ANTI-LIBERAL interlopers for decades ,while embarassed conservatives stepped aside.AS a Cdn living on a different continent I regret having read K Shaidle's comment .....they'll find grounds for jurisdiction and track me down,(oh Kathy why did you have to even think that ) I think I'll just pull down the blinds and await my fate,I opened the page ..I'm guilty
Since my blog Mesopotamia West is mentioned in this thread, I'd like to add a few more comments.
My problem with unbridled growth based on immigration is that it raises the possibility that the immigrant communities will, in some urban centres, outnumber the native born. This will make it impossible to assimilate this group of individuals as the French have found out in the suburbs around Paris, many of which are now officially no-go zones.
So when people like Andrew Coyne, in today's National Post, say we need to bulk up our population with double the annual intake of immigrants, I say, wait a minute. What happens when we completely remake our urban centres into centres that reflect those newcomers?
Do we want a Peking, New Delhi or, God forbid, Gaza, plunked down in the green fields and dappled sunshine of Canada?
The whole immigration question needs to be revisited. Soon.
I just wish I'd had the brains of my five older siblings.
Between them, they've "given" me about 20-odd nieces and nephews.
Of course, 20-odd offspring mean about a million-odd headaches, but only for the parents!
Still, though, that doesn't solve the probleme of de-peopled skanks parading about in the July heat, a step or two behind the husband, and a millenium or two behind the times.
You used to see a lot of beautiful French- Canadian women in Montréal, many arm in arm with their ageing, wealthy (and distinguished) anglophone sugar-daddies.
Convent-raised "Dominion" girls, rolling their Rs (and more!), humouring the country's economic elites, and selflessly doing their part to grease the wheels of business and commerce.
For proof, just watch that old NFB documentary about Sam Steinberg ( black 'n white!) and take a gander at "Suzanne", his secretary and adviser.
How ON EARTH did they get any work done?
Toronto has Veterans Day celebrations? Damn Yankees. :) Salt Lake City is Hispanic heaven.
Now Belfast, there's a white town.
* White: 1,670,988 (99.15%)
* Chinese: 4,145 (0.25%)
* Mixed: 3,319 (0.20%)
* Irish Traveller: 1,710 (0.10%)
* Indian: 1,567 (0.09%)
* Other Ethnic Group: 1,290 (0.08%)
* Pakistani: 666 (0.04%)
* Black African: 494 (0.03%)
* Other Black: 387 (0.02%)
* Black Caribbean: 255 (0.02%)
* Bangladeshi: 252 (0.01%)
* Other Asian: 194 (0.01%)
mahatma, if canada is so wonderful why are you living abroad? are you hanging onto your passport just in case you want to get rescued? Do you pay taxes? If not your opinion doesn't count.
I represent more Canadians than you can imagine in your tiny CBC/university brainwashed mind. Maybe you should stay where you are. One less fool.
Geez Kathy, what do you know about this downtown Toronto that you're reluctant to visit? Have you walked through Parkdale recently and seen the difference that property values are making? Been to Eglinton and Oakwood and seen the way that neighbourhood has improved in the past few years?
The real give away is when you get upset about young people getting in your way at the subway station. I can guarantee you that's been going on for at least 15 years, I remember because I used to do it too. You probably wouldn't have felt so threatened by me though, even though I might have been wearing a Starter cap...
I'll grant you that Toronto is in the middle of a transformation. But look at the property prices and blanket development and investment that are driving it. If the Hockey Hall of Fame is ever in trouble, you can bet that MLSE will be there to make a leveraged deal. The Opera House just went up in a 50% foreign city and there's even a certain prominent patron of the arts who is of both Chinese and Jamaican descent which is a double whammy in your book. No wait, do two wrongs make a right? I'm so confused by the complexity of your bigotry.
DJ brings up bloody Belfast which is an apt point. It wasn't the colour of the people at fault(there was a post about this), but supposedly about religion, which is another of your proud biases.
Look at the early works of Ian Paisley and think of how, as a proud Catholic, you would feel about being on the other end of it. Given your willingness to distinguish 'us' from 'them', if you'd lived on The Falls Road in the 70's your name might be on a building there by now.
The good news is that Belfast is prospering now, despite the best efforts of British rule, and you can see the improvement. Even the murals on the Shankill Road are starting to look upmarket.
Toronto is doing fine and is bringing up most of southern Ontario with it on higher education, infrastructure, and a tolerant environment for everyone to work together, which is coincidentally all it took in Ireland too.
And really.... how do you figure that a Canadian living outside the country is brainwashed by the CBC? What's even funnier is that he seems to have backed up your position with anti-liberal screed, admittedly not in a very measured or coherent way, only to be autokilled with your rote liberal bashing.
Dara: It's not about old T.O. but the burbs.
Mark
Ottawa
I still say we should make Alberta an offer it can't refuse, especially if Royal gets in frogistan and pushed for franco-type areas to be independent.
Let Quebec go. Rejoin the Anglosphere.
Parkdale has been on the edge of gentrification for twenty-five years, at least, and it's still a dump. In fact it's worse than it's ever been with the gangsta crowd. Do you even have a clue what Eglinton and Oakwood was like in the 60s and 70s before half the Caribbean moved in? The whole point is that diversity, like in Belfast, will bring conflict to TO or the burbs. It's already happening. White people will flee further afield as the non-whites move in. There's no value in immigrants or immigration except as a cheap source of labour.
Given the choice, would Newfoundland's Beothuks have opted to halt mass white immigration? White Canadians have never been given the choice about the demographic destiny of their country. At one point they would riot in the streets of Vancouver or Toronto in opposition to the invaders. Since WWII, their racial awareness, freedom of association and speech have been gradual stripped aware to the point where successive federal governments are able to invoke a policy of race-replacement with what little opposition there is, smashed by hate speech laws and black robe tyranny. Thank goodness at least Quebec is waking up to the threat and show a desire to save what increasingly is a diminishing French fact in North America. If one must wear the moniker of bigot and racist to speak for the founding peoples in this country, then so be it. Bring on the yellow badges and tattoos!
*
the irony is that, come sharia law, jack and olivia and the rest of toronto's vibrant metrosexual community, are gonna be the first people put up against the wall of the buddies in bad times theatre... and stoned to death.
and no amount of "hey, i supported your right to practice your religion" is gonna call off the party.
*
There might be worse outcomes than the establishment of cosmopolitan cities alongside the traditional ethnically homogeneous regions in a politically decentralized country. I've heard that many immigrants (e.g. Mexicans in the U.S.) like the idea that they have an ethnic homeland to go back to if they wish; the problem with this from white (and black) Americans' point of view is that meanwhile, their own homelands are being taken from them. But if immigrants to Canada are all going to the big cities, this leaves the Euro-Canadians with their homeland, together with the option of residing in one of the cosmopolitan centres if they prefer. I'm not suggesting that this means things are bound to go well in Canada (which is unlikely if no one is allowed to talk about it) -- only trying to point out a positive aspect that might be used as the basis for a feasible political strategy.
Posted at 2007-03-14 19:00:28 [PermaLink]Barrie is the answer in terms of avoiding things of which one must not speak.
[External Link]
Mark
Ottawa
Miss Shaidle, I think (although his comment is a little hard to follow at times) Mahatma was sarcastically agreeing with you, so I believe your outrage at him was misplaced. His claim that he will tracked down and arrested for even reading your post seems to me to be an joking attack on Canadian political correctness, not any kind of praise of it. The same goes for his reference to "liberal sheeple." (Unfortunately, by attacking his current non-residency in Canada, you've damaged one of your own supporters.)
Posted at 2007-03-14 20:18:48 [PermaLink]Mark, in 20 years, Barrie will be the burbs of Toronto.
Toronto isn't leaving behind the surrounding area. Right now you could drive all the way to Buffalo or Barrie or Oshawa without finding an area where property prices, development, and capital investment were falling. People drive in from Barrie or Brantford to work downtown.
What I find suspect is that this subject gets brought up so often on this blog but nobody even touches on a plan to address it that they're willing to share. Except for that one guy, but he chickened out at the basic logistics stage. The rest of the time you right wingers are so proactive, but on this all you have is helpless frustration? Really?
Why not just suggest mass white procreation to start? You could scale back on that abominable sex ed and it would come naturally. Of course then you risk a syphillis outbreak, but what could be more WASPy than that?
Enoch Powell offered a solution.
Utrecht is a sample of things to come.
"Dutch media report that in the city of Utrecht riots have started after a police officer shot a man armed with a knife. This night is the second night of serious riots in the city. Cars are put on fire, shops are destroyed and a former police station went up in flames. On first glance one might think:
Paris style riots in The Netherlands?
But unlike the Paris riots, the rioters are not Muslims. The rioters are all native Dutch. "
[External Link]
"only trying to point out a positive aspect that might be used as the basis for a feasible political strategy."
Feasible only if the de facto becomes de jure.
It still leaves the question unanswered why Euro-Canucks should give up their homelands at all, including the cities.
"...why Euro-Canucks should give up their homelands at all..."
Am I the only one who sees the humour in that?
"...why Euro-Canucks should give up their homelands at all..."
Yup, DiV, ludicrous. That and Veteran's Day in TO. Hilarious.
Protest songs, people, you need protest songs!
..and blockades!
Dara doesn't that raging hard on you have for me ever make it difficult to walk around?
If you think Toronto is doing fine, your standards of fine are about as low as I'd expect.
and for all your placename dropping, the fight in Northern Ireland was a territorial dispute not a religious one. Thomas Sowell has even called it "racial". And you don't think you are smarter than him, do you?
Oh and if you don't think those two black guys are just as "racist" as I am (not to mention "homophobic") you are more naive that I ever expected.
My favorite part of the article is "The trend lines suggest Canada is well-positioned to weather the demographic storm – providing the country successfully integrates its huge migrant population."
Who says we are even trying to integrate? Instead we have encouraged immigrants to retain their homelands values, beliefs, hatreds etc.
Immigration is a neccessity. Our declining birthrates attest to this. What we should be arguing about is ending "multiculturalism" and requiring integration.
enough
Or enough, we could encourage people to have kids instead of what we have been doing: telling people there is a population boom and not to have children, an idea millions of people, including me, fell for, with the resulting predictable consequences.
And some of us have been advancing natalist ideas of late, Dara, but of course you were too busy masturbating to Utne reader to notice.
PS: about Chin. Have you ever heard the expression "the exception that proves the rule". Like most lefties you think one "numinous" minority cancels out the sins of the others. I guess you haven't heard that many many Toronto Jamaicans loathe Chin because his success merely casts their own failures into high relief.
You really don't know much about this city, do you?
Kathy, I've seen pictures of you and believe me, my stride is steady. Your two posts to me and your fantasy about me abusing myself make me wonder if you've been lucky enough to see a picture of me sweetie.
I only said Belfast was "supposedly about religion". I'd agree with Sowell that the Catholic/Protestant thing presented itself in a racial manner. You could swap out the N-word for Catholic in most of Paisley's speeches and they'd be ready for the stage at a KKK meeting.
It was a blind ignorant hatred(sound familiar?) of the "other" that drove all the troubles, and it was all born out of territorial problems that still exist, but as I mentioned before, things have improved immeasurably in recent years.
Regardless, I'm fairly certain that I've spent more time in Belfast than Sowell has and I don't cede "smarter" that easily regardless of grey hairs.
"Oh and if you don't think those two black guys are just as "racist" as I am (not to mention "homophobic") you are more naive that I ever expected."
I suspected that two wrongs made a right in your mind, and now you've confirmed it. You're only racist against people whose skin colour proves that they're racist. Now that's some sound thinking.
"I guess you haven't heard that many many Toronto Jamaicans loathe Chin because his success merely casts their own failures into high relief. "
Given your own loathing of Jamaicans, I'm assuming that this isn't from your close group of friends so before you continue with any other screed:
SOURCE PLEASE!
I don't think there is anything wrong with allowing these various people into Canada, but since so many move to Toronto we should definitely have a limit on numbers.
Like someone said above, if the majority of a community is immigrants, how could they possibly accustom themselves to the Canadian way of life?
We'll end up with communities where the women have fewer rights than everyone else, where the people greet each other differently so we will difficulty interacting, where they read their own newspapers and magazines so we will not be talking about the same things.
We just need to ensure that immigrants do become integrated. A good test is to look and see whether people in each community branch out from their community and integrate with Canadians at large, or do they just interact with their immediate neighbours (who are also immigrants from the same region of the world)?
"Am I the only one who sees the humour in that?"
Why doesn't that surprise me? After all it's not happening in Israel.
It was a blind ignorant hatred(sound familiar?) of the "other" that drove all the troubles, and it was all born out of territorial problems that still exist, but as I mentioned before, things have improved immeasurably in recent years.:Dara
Whose blind hatred, Dara? Yours, or that of the British?
I can remember Bernadette Devlin appearing on Front Page Challenge when I was about 11. In fact, I remember everything she was wearing, right down to her footwear. She had just been elected to the British Parliament in fair and open elections, had flown to Toronto on a British gov't expense account from her British gov't subsidised flat in London.....to complain of British oppression!
My dad, a veteran of WWII, who had been very, very well treated by the British, muttered "what a fucking idiot" at the T.V.
Does Bernadette still have those huge kennedyesque buck-teeth, Dara, or did her husband knock 'em out?
And your "troubles", Dara, began way back in the days of Rome. For four centuries your ancestors in "Britania" bitched, whined and complained about the occupation. "End the occupation", they'd bleat. You were considered quite a troublesome people....hardly worth the effort.
Well, in 408 the Roman legions left, and nearly every inhabitant of the isle watched from atop the cliffs of Dover with an attitude of *good-riddence*.
Within 50 years of their departure Germanic invaders wiped Celtic Britian right off the map.
And now you're telling us, Dara, you have it on good authority that Toronto is doing well?
Sure!
John,
Considering the good comments you've left on threads here, that last one was disappointing. You managed to throw in some good stereotyping though, I'm sure that Bernadette's husband Paddy is far too drunk to take a swing at her most nights.
She was elected because of her willingness to stand against the oppression, so her speaking about it post election is hardly surprising.
Besides, I can tell by your last name that your Dad was Polish, so it's not like he's actually genetically qualified to call someone an idiot, right?
The Brits are almost as far past their time as the Romans. Ireland is, by any standard, doing far better by than England or Italy these days. Empires crumble, and the Irish Celts survived them all to prosper.